“I haven’t read any superhero comics since I finished with Watchmen. I hate superheroes. I think they’re abominations. They don’t mean what they used to mean. They were originally in the hands of writers who would actively expand the imagination of their nine- to 13-year-old audience. That was completely what they were meant to do and they were doing it excellently. These days, superhero comics think the audience is certainly not nine to 13, it’s nothing to do with them. It’s an audience largely of 30-, 40-, 50-, 60-year old men, usually men. Someone came up with the term graphic novel. These readers latched on to it; they were simply interested in a way that could validate their continued love ofGreen Lantern or Spider-Man without appearing in some way emotionally subnormal. This is a significant rump of the superhero-addicted, mainstream-addicted audience. I don’t think the superhero stands for anything good. I think it’s a rather alarming sign if we’ve got audiences of adults going to see the Avengers movie and delighting in concepts and characters meant to entertain the 12-year-old boys of the 1950s.”
I think there’s a degree of masculinity-shaming in that, with complaints about how liking something exciting and escapist makes you “immature” and quite possibly not a “man”. Screw that.
If masculinity is being shamed, we might as well surrender to the Jihadic hordes and be done with it.
I think you’re projecting; Moore is both a producer of, and unashamed advocate for, escapist faire. What he’s saying is superficiality correct, at least: comic books were once for kids, but now that history is denied through terms like graphic novel, without the fundamental narratives being changed. What people think about that is a matter of perspective and taste.
I have a bit of trouble believing that the main audience is 30-70, given that classically, younger men are the demographic most chased after. Could be wrong, no access to special data here, but I suspect that the aging of the demographic is accurate but that the absence of the younger end is not.
Similarly, the inclusion of 30 year olds undermines it somewhat. Why are thirty year olds watching this stuff under this logic? Because of fond memories of 90s and ate 80s-era comics? Possibly because of fond memories of 90s cartoons, but that seems an ancillary point.
It seems more plausible to me that what people hold on to early tastes but now have money and thus can be sold more expensive escapism and toys. I don’t think that’s necessarily in disagreement with Moore’s point. But unless he’s actually got some data, I’m not buying that comics have cut off their youth audience. I mean I could potentially buy it, lord knows DC has alienated me with their cross-universe nonsense, but I don’t get why this decade is worse than the past few.
To be clear, I don’t know that I agree with Moore, just that I find this provocative, particularly given the source.
Fair enough.
Just to follow-up given your most recent post, I wanted to make sure I’m not being reflexively defensive.
I already thought of Moore as a fairly comic-critical at this point in this career as well as a curmudgeon (the one doesn’t imply the other, I just think he’s both). So I focused more on the substance of the critique than the source.
My current feeling is that we just seem to have hit the point of diminishing marginal returns with a lot of this material, in part because of the requirements of genre. The regular occurrence of reboots underlines this. At the same time, when a particular approach matures, it’s often possible to pull off subversions or fun intertextuatal tricks as Marvel sometimes does. The two are definitely in tension.
That said, he may well be right that many of the aspects that drive diminishing returns involve the original audience and the different present audience.
Mostly people in their 20s and 30s: http://graphicpolicy.com/2011/04/27/who-are-the-comic-fans-on-facebook/
Worth noting that Moore may have been affecting some of his famous curmudgeonliness here. I mean, he worked on plenty of superhero comics after Watchmen (although certainly in the last decade or so, that has leveled off). But I wonder if he isn’t in a position to be acutely aware of the disparity in sales and interest between his (and others’) superhero work and and his more “serious” work. As much as I love a good superhero movie, I don’t think he’s crazy to suggest that it’s too bad so many grown-ups are so invested in what started out as stories for kids; comics today are indeed more thoughtful on the whole — but the bar was pretty low to begin with. And the vast majority of contemporary comics are not even close to the works of literary genius you get the sense some fans believe they are.
What I have yet to see is any one attempt to actually rebut his claims by example rather than simply reverting to general muttering about curmudgeonliness.
As someone who reads superhero comics on a monthly basis, my own experience tells me that less than 10% of them offer anything approaching complex characterization, formalistic depth, or thematic coherence.
Seriously. There are far more great comics out there than ever before (and probably also plenty of average stories that get unduly lauded because they’re “real” stories in a comic format), and a few smart superhero comics. But most of the superhero stuff is hipper, sleeker, funnier, darker, but does not lend itself to the provoking of a lotta thought. There’s more to art than self-aware wisecracks and fourth-wall-breaking metacommentary.
Taking up that challenge, I’m generally fond of the work of John Ostrander, although I’ve fallen a bit behind. I think Gail Simone does some fun subversion, although I’d be also be curious what she’d do in a non-superhero setting. I also rather liked a few of the Avatar: The last airbender books, although I disagreed with some friends on that.
That said, having not yet seen Winter Soldier, I’m also willing to go out on a limb and say that there’s something valuable about a popular and well-known character with a strong dissent is patriotic vibe. No obviously that’s not going to be a full-on smash the nation-state type position, but as I understand it people that did not like the handling of Marvel’s Civil War are pretty happy with the most recent film.
Ultimately, I think there’s something to be said for using popular political mediums as a tool of outreach. Of course some messages are easier fits with a genre than others. I was content to skip the latest Batman outing but will probably eventually catch Avengers and Winter Soldier.
The irony being that Watchmen was among the first comics to be labeled “graphic novel.”